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Player feedback from April 2021
Apr 1, 2021 4:31

This topic contains player feedback for this month that the player approved for the forum.

Apr 1, 2021 4:31

I want to propose an idea for more interesting effects in the battle: Make the summoned creatures of random size (with a cap on the size that depends on the mage?). In my opinion spells should have different “quality”.

Apr 1, 2021 12:13

… And how does summoning work right now?

Apr 1, 2021 14:41

I don’t know if there is ANY difference between the mages. Kobolds can summon ogres and dragons beatles. If that beatle could be titanic and that ogre normal (at max) that would somehow fit better. Of course a titanic archer or mage can be a real new danger, but if the size is random that does not happen too often.

Apr 1, 2021 20:44

For summoning, the only difference is that mages only summon monsters at/above the dungeon level they are on (so no Ruins monsters into the Mines, for example).

Apr 2, 2021 14:28

For daily hunt’s. if the monster has more then 1 HP. Then how about it gives more then 1 quest item. Example. mummy with 2 heal, 2 bandages.

Apr 2, 2021 17:42

Here’s a little strategical tidbit for all my Dungeoneer homies. If the path TO the exit that the Crawler is heading TOWARD is blocked - by anything, including you - it will sit and wait until it is open. If you can arrange to be the thing blocking while the Crawler is two spaces away, you can take leisurely pot-shots at it (as I just did w/ Elf and a super-crap bow) until it dies an ignoble, pin-cushiony death.

This (I hope) is not a bug. This is one of those nifty things you learn by wasting your life playing this stupendous game.

That still only counts as one!!

Apr 3, 2021 3:49

Woohoo! 108 wearboars

Apr 3, 2021 7:29

I have a question about stealth leap attack w/ Elf. Ok, so you switch “on” leap attack, then leap attack two, or more, baddies (let’s say two, b/c that can be done w/o using a scroll).

The sword gives Elf an additional “prowl bonus” to the stealth bonus. The bow doesn’t. Since Elf makes that attack on both baddies w/ one move, do ALL the bonuses apply to both baddies (they should), or only to the first in the “simultaneous” series?

Because if NOT, Elf might be more reticent about such actions. You pickin’ up what I’m throwin’ down?

No, Precious, no crunchable birdses…

Apr 3, 2021 10:38

You only get the bonus on the first attack. It might make more sense for the bonus to apply to all the attacks during the leap, but it would be a difficult change to make because the code does not treat the actions as simultaneous.

Apr 3, 2021 10:49

You can see the bonuses on the dice rolls. Slow down the animation speed if you need more time to see it.

Apr 3, 2021 12:43

185 Wereboar nose rings. My personal record.
It seems that the trinkets working on a rolled 2 while guarding really does make a difference. Unless it’s normal for people to kill 70 reds like this week…

Apr 3, 2021 14:44

Indeed I haven’t done that before. Last time I went on 70 in tournament I got a full epic 7,7,7 drop and died while searching desperately for further garbage in minor lair chests (because everything else is a resign). This time I had pretty good drops from 40 on. The worst was the last game, which was a 7,8,9 drop (but fits to the dwarf).
I took the dwarf on 70, to show that new elf is not OP compared to him.

But I think you got it right Tandu. The runs felt “easy” or “lucky”. Trinkets might be the reason. The 2-trinket is indeed a great increase in defense. This can be easily adjusted my reducing the total number of trinkets. I like the idea, that they are (all) really used instead of “just having more of them”.
On average the luck dependency is decreased if we often use them all.

Apr 3, 2021 18:04

Rowdius, I suspected as much by the way the screen changes (and the little “everyone-now-knows-you’re-here” sound). And I agree, it SHOULD apply to all her victims. But it is what it is. I understand, better than you might imagine, how one can become a slave to the code’s legacy after so much has been already invested.

Good to know toward making informed choices in the game.

I’m curious, how does the code decide WHICH of the two - being equidistant during a standard leap - is the first? If it is always the weaker, or always the stronger, knowing would help immensely in said strategic decision-making.

Apr 3, 2021 18:44

Her first attack will be on the target against which she has the higher attack bonus. The main reason for that is so that if she has focus on one of the targets, she’ll attack that one first - otherwise she’d lose the focus bonus when she attacked another monster first.

Apr 4, 2021 6:00

OK. Thanks for the info.

Now that Elf must eat fireballs like crow (a head-scratcher, since she has THE WORST! defense die. And, if memory serves, has been able to counter-attack same since the very beginning), it’s time to finally give her 3-health like everyone else.

Or… start taking a real hard look at that legacy code that defies logic during… wait for it… SIMULTANEOUS attacks.

I love you guys, but this fire-ball decision really pisses me off. Spare me the “reasons”. I know ya’ll always have the reasons. I don’t care what they are, so save the strain on your little typie-fingers.

Apr 4, 2021 14:05

I seem to have completed a 16 dragon campaign while only being famous for 15 black. Did you untie the campaigns from the career level?

Apr 4, 2021 15:51

Yes, Raand, we did.

Apr 4, 2021 17:56

Enough of this Humongous, Gargauntuan Monster Nonsense!!!!!!!

You CAN NOT SEE where open spots are in the forest, cavverns, ETC when there are SO MANY!!!!

Apr 4, 2021 21:30

I agree, when the opponents are rather large, like Colossal ettins or giants, it’s impossible to see what’s behind them. I can’t see pits, open tiles or a bit smaller monsters because they are completely obscured by bigger things in front of them. Just recently I accidentally killed a helping Purple Worm because I couldn’t see what I was aiming (no, the monster window didn’t show the worm, just an ettin). The monster window (upper right quadrant) should update based on what’s under the cursor, not just show the last monster until the next one comes along. It’s hard to know if a tile is empty when the monster window is stuck on showing some ettin that may be on the other side of the board or even already dead.

Apr 5, 2021 6:02

And I couldn’t see the empty space that I needed to put flame in to stop the colossal ettin moving next to me Or the hag that was occupying a route that I had mistakenly thought I could sneak along through the ettins to mount a surprise massive attack on a hag witch and launch a feat chain. Even carefully hovering over every single hex on the board and looking to see if the top-right picture has changed cannot distinguish between pits and open tiles (Tandu’s suggestion of having the monster window show whatever the current tile is even if its a pit or empty would help). Ettins, particularly, make it very difficult to see because they are wide as well and have two heads. I had one room where I couldn’t even see how many ettins there were to fight, let alone where I was or what was next to me!

It’s good that the monsters are shown in different appropriate sizes. But Ettin hunts really need that proposed button to make everything small!

Apr 6, 2021 3:13

Dread Stalker, Tandu, Raand9999, you understand “…it never made sense…” being able to see the whole room amongst a sea of giant, colossal and super-big monsters. Just think about it, you know, ‘cause the logic is quite sound. Certainly IRL you’d have the same problem before you leap over them while hacking w/ your sword.

Apr 6, 2021 7:15

IRL I would maybe know where in a room/cave/area I am. I might see what I’m attacking. If I couldn’t see the other end of the room I’d understand. If I couldn’t see what’s right in front of me then I’d call myself blind and retire from dragonslaying business.

Apr 6, 2021 14:24

@Chad Icon. You’re off the mark. I can see where I’m leaping to. I can’t see where I’m leaping from. I’ve no issue seeing the back of the monster ettin my hero is facing!

I suspect changing the game to give a first-person shoot-em-up style to get that “realistic” view would require rather a lot of rewriting, new artwork, probably a new underlying game engine, and would change the characteristic of the game. And I’m not sure it would actually solve the problem of not being able to see what’s where, since now I’d be able to see the front of the monster ettin but not the back. So you’d still be asking for a minimap. On the other hand, temporarily using smaller pieces on the board so the player can see all of it sounds much more straightforward to actually do.

Apr 6, 2021 14:27

The button to shrink everything is approaching top of the list.

Apr 6, 2021 15:52

You’re right, raand9999. I was off the mark with my snotty snark. It was facetious and not helpful to the conversation. I am sorry to everyone who had to experience it.

I was thinking a button that makes all the enemies seem transparent, as when the heroes are in stealth-mode. That would be cooler and would help keep that threatening feeling alive for the player. But Rowdius’s “shrink” is probably easier to implement and that’s ok.

Not a protest at the “fix” but when I was in that situation, I was kind-a like, “This is part of the escalating difficulty,” and was mostly ok with it, though it was confusing and… um, difficult.

I would also like to suggest that the “window” that shows enemy stats when cursor is over it, instead show info about whatever hex it’s over - enemy, pit, fire, whatever. It’s hard to see, sometimes, in a crowd of dragons too. Maybe that’s redundant with shrink. idk

Also, for Elf’s leaping, if the leap is out of her range, the cursor should change back to normal (or turn red or something) instead of giving “text” bad news after the click.

I’ve hear enough. Stick an arrow in his gob.

Apr 6, 2021 18:04

The elf is not getting her defense bonus for distance attacks, bug or new feature? Because that is a major nerf if it is planned.

Apr 6, 2021 18:52

There comes a point where it shifts from “difficult” to “frustrating”. I lost at least four hit points including my last one in the ettin hunt just because I couldn’t see. Of course if you like a challenge, just don’t press the button :-)

I thought transparent might be a cool solution too, but Rowdius came up with making everything small and actually after thinking about it I think that might be better as even with transparency if you are looking through a few monsters it might still be confusing.

Apr 6, 2021 22:50

Castillian - What do you mean by the elf not getting her defense bonus for distance attacks? Are you referring to the +20% dodge against missle/breath? We don’t put the dodge bonus next to the dice because dodge does not affect the chance of the monster scoring a hit. Rather, if the monster does score a hit, dodge gives a chance that you can dodge the hit and take no damage.

Apr 7, 2021 7:14

After the campaign is free to progress I succeeded in 4 and 5 dragons campaign with bare hands in the first try. To celebrate, I made a screenshot-compilation of the 5-red journey. So you can get a feeling how it looks going through like that. The lair was tough with so few pits and fire scrolls, but they could not hold me down. :)

Apr 7, 2021 7:20

Buglike behaviour: I just recognized (see images above), that the screenshot tool of firefox does not include the pits! (In there lair, there was one pit next to the treasure chest).

Apr 7, 2021 13:16

I too started playing campaigns larger than my fame.

Well done consistently taking out several dragons with that wooden sword from the villagers!

Apr 8, 2021 7:22


I have been playing for a long time, at level 260 using a level 23 human in the tournament.

Used to think this game had “honest” dice rolls and random level but starting to think it is not completely random. I have completed levels with 50+ dragons and left with healing potions left over…..for the last 3 weeks, cannot complete the tourney past 20 red dragons…

today, I counted in

Apr 8, 2021 7:25

That was weird, hit enter instead of back-space….

Anyways, today I counted 16+ rolls of less than a 6-roll (that is with a 12-sided dice). What are the odds, it could be figured but I don’t want to try…..

Started the 30-level tournament, got to the dragon lair with 13 healing potions but only a +7 sword (with the human that is bad). However, 16+ rolls of 6 or less just seals your fate…..lost the level with 15+- dragons left….a complete wipe out.

Starting to think the game is rigged or they made the dice-rolls “less random”…..getting less-fun… :)

Apr 8, 2021 7:27

Agree with Dread Stalker, the Humongous, Gargauntuan stuff is non-sense….you cannot even see the room and them paired against 4, 5, 6 or more 13+ monsters with only a +7 weapon is not even realistic….

Please stop over-sizing monsters…..just make a few “stronger” monsters that are normal size so you can see the board!!

Apr 9, 2021 17:00

Something has changed. There’s a shortage of potions (especially) and scrolls that’s evident across the board. I thought it was just me - and the vagaries of chance - at first. I don’t think that any more. Not after an entire week+. Something has changed

Apr 10, 2021 1:54

I propose a new skill for human; Autoguard, after moving. Say 50% chance, or only when not in melee contact. Would help closing distance w. non-melee units. Also, normal bull-rush is unusable because it causes no panic. U always choose normal attack for safety. Bull-rush should cause panic.

Apr 10, 2021 1:58

Ideas for new enemies (especially undead section, which is most monotonic in enemy types:) Hell hound, that would move 2 hex or attack after moving. Golem, that would be immune to first attack. Chimera, that would randomly fire spines or move to melee. Duergar, invisible until attack in melee.

Apr 10, 2021 6:25

For high-lvl players. Ideas for game challenge other than a constant increase in foe numbers.
THESE ARE JUST IDEAS</STRONGbr> 1) Enemies start learning from mistakes (yeah, I know there are almost never survivors to share the tales, but just roll w/ me here): Initially, maybe behavior. Human enemies won’t approach - after first shoved-in-a-pit victim - a hex between Human and pit. They wait. If a standoff ensues, maybe they go call in an archer or two.

  • Maybe they start getting wise, like not moving next to flames when moving next to flames makes you die.
  • Maybe stronger baddies w/ shields start doing some shoving and charging of their own (with a little "!" symbol "grrr, I'm gonna do this..." above their heads the turn previous. Similar to what's done w/ magic-user-baddies currently)
  • Perhaps it dawns on them... "We could work together!, then they, you know, start working together making formations- fighters and/or shields in front, archers and magic-users behind. Especially 2nd dungeon lvl and up as they are more sophisticated and all. Maybe they move to guard the treasure (see below)
  • Upon consideration - after getting chomped a few times - baddies stop standing next to pits when fighting Dwarf! (On a side note, maybe a wounded Wormy, after eating, say, 10 enemies or something, regains a life-bar.))
    • 2) Start hiding/locking-up/using treasure: (maybe the shamans in the room move to actually *use* scrolls, as any sensible sentient would. Now I usually try to take out the sparkle-fingers first, but if they're heading for the treasure chest, that would become *ALWAYS*).
      • Maybe everyone in room wakes TF up when magic weapon is touched
    • Perhaps the Chief Baddy in the room moves to grab, and use, magic weapon. Hero gets it upon slay-age.
    • Mayhap our Hero cannot see what mammon is in the room until the chest gets opened. Maybe one goody-two-shoes is really good at picking locks (team idea... yeah, I know it's anachronistic). Maybe another white-hat can bash it open really quick. Could there be a chance one of the baddies has the key stashed in its boot? Search-time and noise creates ever-increasing odds that some wondering monster will come see what all the ruckus is about. MAYBE the heroes could relock said chest and come back to it later!
    So, there are endless ideas - other than "More monsters. MORE! MORE MONSTERS!!" - to keep things interesting and challenging. If you'd like to hear more, just say, "Mr. Icon, I'd like to hear more." Or, "Not bad, Chad. What else ya got?" ALSO: an edit button? Yeah, on the forum? That would be a sauce of awesome on it.
Apr 10, 2021 12:43

wow. the above is a perfect example of where an edit button would prove useful. what a mess. Sorry…. blush

Apr 10, 2021 19:33

The zero defense for distance shots is a feature, not a bug. I took a potshot at a gas spore hoping that the explosion would take out the orcs surrounding me, but of course it missed them all. They got free melee attacks against zero defense bonus, and I got popped a couple of times.

However, I repeated the action with the human, and it did the same thing. I was not aware / had forgotten about this mechanic. Standard D and D rule, obviously you can’t use a shield while holding a bow. But it sucks when you have a +6 shield and get 0.

Apr 13, 2021 11:59

@ Chad Icon;

So you want to punish players who make it to high levels from hard work by making the game harder and not giving them ANY reward in return, how about just make the game have a mega gargantuan giant with a bow who has +30 to hit and defense and is blocking the exit and never moves so we just die? If you’re going to give the monsters a huge edge you have to give the player a reason to challenge them, just making them smarter/bigger/magic using able just to kill us is an excellent way to make players quit

Apr 13, 2021 16:25

Glenden - We could. Or does the chance of occasional Wile E. Coyote moments add to the overall, long-term enjoyment of the game?

Apr 13, 2021 16:58

Earththunder- Not my intention at all to just kill everybody and make players quit - to paraphrase you. I was just brainstorming (and yes the entire entry was a steaming-hot mess which was no help at all).

My thinking was simply this: Once a player maxes - or nearly so - the character levels, boredom will set in if the only new challenge is ever-increasing numbers of the same monsters over and over. And there are other interesting ways to add challenge besides MORE MONSTERS! And the game-makers have always built in increasing rewards for higher risk. That assumption was in place, though - you’re right - I didn’t explicitly say so.

But you don’t like my ideas. That’s cool. Throw some of you own ideas out there if you want.

Apr 13, 2021 17:19

There’s one phrase Dwarf shouts that I’ve never been able to decipher. It’s something like, “Try to run, you cage something rust bucket!!” Anyone know what he’s saying for that one?

Apr 13, 2021 18:48

“Try to run, you cave slinking rust bucket.”

Although other interpretations are always welcome. Dwarvish translations are never precise.

Apr 14, 2021 0:24

I also proposed reduction of mages. One could count the mages as 1.5 dragons for the room filling and make 6.5 the maximum (average is 5.5). So 4 mages would be the max (without any other dragons) or 3 mages and 2 other dragons.

That said, I am not sure if that makes things always more easy on total. The good thing with dense packed mages is, that they are not elswhere. So you get a lot of “melee only” rooms. As dwarf this is bad (I would like 1 mage per room with dwarf). As elf this caster removement helps a lot. Maybe the human is also in that direction.

“Holy moly moments” make for fun if you don’t have a 7 sword that misses all time. If this comes together the “holy moly” transforms to a “holy sh..”

Maybe it would be enough for the “good feeling” to swap rooms such that dragon mages are deeper in the lair. This at least introduces a new feeling of “toughness”. The holy-moly-moment in the last room with 5 mages is fine in my opinion, because you can throw all potions and scrolls in you have (with a good feeling).

Apr 14, 2021 14:08

@ Chad Icon, I should have known that you meant to add rewards for it without saying, but then I’d be assuming and we all know what that does lol.

I think adding more and more dragons to your total needs to be changed, seriously, it’s going to be impossible for anyone to ever kill 80 dragons on this game with how few items you get, how about adding another health bar to the dragons so they have 4 once you reach say 40 dragons? have it drop back down to 30 dragons with 4 health and when you reach 40 again they drop back down to 30 with 5 health and so on? That or throw in more and more items for the players because like I said, no one will ever succeed at killing 80 dragons in 1 go round, also you’ll need to eventually raise the max levels again when people start hitting it, that or give them bonus items.

Apr 14, 2021 14:13

What did the Troll say when the Sun came up?

Man, I am going to get so stoned

Apr 15, 2021 0:01

More altars Erththunder. At 40 and 60 dragons. That would be enough for me to kill 80 with a full lvl elf ;)

But indeed the principle somewhen gets impossible to continue. I like the idea a lot to make them stronger. E.g. at 40 dragons they are set back to 30 and get another hit point. At 50 they are then set back to 40 and get 5 health. Etc.

But I don’t know if this is easy to implement.

Apr 15, 2021 3:06

I am requesting/suggesting that ghosts XP value either be boosted, or value of regens be changed. Maybe 1st regen is 0.5 value; 2nd 0.25 value, then 1XP there after.

If you get stuck in a room and run out of scrolls (exp fire), fighting endless ghosts can become quite costly in life-bars… and no (additional) reward.

I understand that it’s possible to abuse. like players could purposely allow them to regen for points. But experience show such opportunities are rare (and you could also do that with magic-users’ summoning, for example).

I hate fighting ghosts, esp w/ low-lvl weapons, unless I have a cache of fire scrolls. Of course that’s the idea- I get it.

Or, at least, maybe they don’t act - attack/cast - the moment they re-appear.

*You’re supposed to be the burglar. Go burgal something! *

Apr 15, 2021 7:25

Just leave the room… honestly… I do that all day long…

Apr 15, 2021 18:12

Bare Hand: don’t they continue regenerating once you reenter? Or if, say, there are 4 ghosts left out of 8, the “room” (upon reentry) resets, so to speak, and says to itself, “There were ever only 4 ghosts in here.” If that’s the case, then yes; leaving would help! I will try it and see what happens.

I thought an 8-ghost room would always know it was, and so never bothered leaving.

Thanks for the tip!

Apr 15, 2021 18:18

It would be great fun if there was some special effects when Human shoves a fireball-holding magic user into a pit. Extra screaming, burning, explosions, that’s always welcome.

Give it to me raw and wriggling. You can keep nasty chips.

Apr 16, 2021 3:11

Idea: If a character kills a magic user while it’s prepping a fireball for launch, the magic user explodes like a fireball and the monsters adjacent to it must save against fireball. (That would include the character, which is, you know, a… um… drawback.)

There’s naught in ‘im but evil.

Apr 16, 2021 3:36

No, the room is not different if you re-enter. I just leave and let the room as it is. There is no need to kill all sorts of ghosts. Hopefully there are not ghosts everywhere. If it is just one room you can typically avoid it completely or just take what you need and leave.

Apr 16, 2021 5:54

More than once I’ve had multiple ghost rooms. but my favorite ones are right when you start with those amazing +1 gear and the 3 rooms you can access either have 10 monsters in them or are gargantuan sized…such a great way to start off, you know, like that DM you had one time and you had just spent 2 hours making your characters and the first monster you run in to is an ancient red dragon…have fun

Apr 16, 2021 13:20

If you are not in tournament you can try to swap to elf and leap to the room in the upper left corner. If you can at least clean this, you have a good circle-movement option (and maybe already better equip). Then you can attack from sneak, vanish and re-enter safely.

If that is not “cleanable”, you can still try to do circles, but must hope for some luck with sneaking in that room. If even this fails, try to first clean the mines…

I had once that mess-game where I ended up with this strategy with and sneak-failing-elf at the entrance to the ruins between a room of mummy kings, giants (backside) and the dragon lair and a 2(?)-bow… I even failed the 1-step-sneak to a chest in the dragon lair, used undo and shot a 2-close mummy king with a 12-heroic strike and got all treasures after this…

What I want to say is: This “run away” principle can lead pretty far, when dungeons are not welcoming. I am quite a chicken, especially in tournament.

If you play that chicken game, be VERY aware of murphy’s law.

Apr 16, 2021 16:25

Bare Hand: yes, absolutely I leave if all the loot is taken up. Unless the kills are “sure” I never stay and fight just for XP any more. When you need millions of points to lvl up, three 90-point ghost are a waste if time and steel. But leaving a room uncleared is not always an option.

Rellik: Chicken’s my favorite! Elf is rarely the problem when it comes to ghosts. It’s that dang, plodding Human who can get out of his own way.

I have discovered a beautiful little … capability … human has that’s very super-power-like. But I fear sharing it b/c someone coughRowdiuscough might see a bug that needs breaking, er… fixing.

Apr 17, 2021 9:04

As long as you don’t kill 80 dragons in tournament with him, it will not be so overpowered… what could it be… can you still skewer invisible specters? SLIMES? :D But that is not a real superpower… What is the target of the superpower? If it is not dragons, I think it is not so relevant…

Apr 17, 2021 18:28

Ok, Bare Hand. Maybe I indulged in mild hyperbole. I will cryptic this: Human is not always bipedal

Apr 18, 2021 7:07

I am hoping my Dungeoneer comrades might help me understand some tidbits of strategy related to Dwarf. Dwarf gets a weighted bonus for attacking while surrounded by 3 or more enemies. There is also a bonus added on for charging. Here’s the strategical part I do not understand.

Dwarf charges into a crowd of 4, let’s say. The one charged toward is almost assuredly a hit. THAT part I get. But then Dwarf is surrounded. NO bonus on defense for the next round while every enemy in the circle - except for that one surprised ponce - gets a whack at the short-guy. Now, the NEXT turn Dwarf can Hunker, and that’s a little better (depending on shield-quality).

Why do it? (Other than, “It’s fun!” That part I understand!) In my experience, the benefit of the “sure hit” rarely outweighs having to just stand there and take 3 or 4 hits afterward. Please share your insights. Thanks!

Come, Shadowfax. Show us the meaning of speed.

Apr 18, 2021 8:17


Human: NEVER!! I’ll never join you Dwarf: If you only knew the power of the Dwarf side Dwarf: Dwarfy Wan never told you what happened to your dwarf Human: He told me enough, he said you Dwarfed him Dwarf: No, I am your Dwarf Human: No, that’s not not true, That’s impossible! NO! NO!!

That’d be foolish to take one “guaranteed” hit and sit through 3-4 hits hoping they don’t hit you, I hate the dwarf as it is, he sucks when I play him, I’m lucky to get through the regular rooms with him, let alone the dragon rooms.

Apr 18, 2021 12:43

Charging the dwarf into a pack of 4 or 5 is usually a weak play unless you have a solid plan for the next move: Massive Hit giving you another turn, strong shields meaning you can Hunker effectively or hasting and charging again to move away while the front two are still panicked. You did miss the point that two are panicked by the charge, so don’t attack, but if they are multi-hp monsters you’ll probably take 3 hits from a pack of 5 before you can hunker if you just charge in with no plan.

Charging a (defensively) weak monster in a group is a good way of starting a feat chain if you have strong weapons. Works well in the hunt where there is a wider mix of weak and strong monsters (or, just more monsters!) Frenzy+Charge+Surprise (or Gird Loins)+good weapon vs weak monster can be a guaranteed massive hit. Remember which monsters are panicked.

If you’re not in that situation you are usually better off charging round the outside of the pack at groups of 2 where you can hit one, and panic the other one, then do something else next. Obviously you aren’t using Frenzy then.

Human vs ghosts: try to take out more than one at once. Skewer, or counterattack/allow fireball with decent shield. Try not to run around getting to the next one, giving them chance to come back. (Doorways are good, if you have to get to the other side to get the mage that’s run away.) The mages are a PITA - they enlarge ghosts, and they stay enlarged until you kill all the ghosts. Even if you kill the mage or the ghost they enlarged, when they come back they’re still big! Personally with the human I prefer the ghosts to rooms packed full of skeleton archers.

Apr 18, 2021 14:02

Good answer raand9999, in all aspects. @Earththunder, of course you should not play him like human! Hunker, Hunker, Hunker and charge the last health is his style.

However, we once had the result of a discussion that IF you have an 9 sword on adrenaline+ invisible gird-loin max-lvl-dwarf and a circle of 5 dragons, you can do that and get a massive hit. In reality you won’t do that move (becasue THAT situation is rare). It is mostly wrong and you should act like raand said or just jump in the middle and hunker.

Apr 18, 2021 14:14

By the way: I like that idea of Chadicon somehow:
“”” Idea: If a character kills a magic user while it’s prepping a fireball for launch, the magic user explodes like a fireball and the monsters adjacent to it must save against fireball. (That would include the character, which is, you know, a… um… drawback.) “”” At the point where the fizzle is not possible any more, the spell could somehow be “unleashed”. The fireball could strike on a random field or create a fire wall. The summening could be “transformed” towards a dungmonster runt or a ghost. And a size spell (well it ends with the death of the caster, so this is only relevant for multi-health-casters) could also be unleashed on a random target and shrink it.

Apr 18, 2021 14:34

Thanks, everyone. Very helpful. Earththunder got me LOL-ing so loud my wife wanted the scoop.

Raand, as usual, your analysis/strategic thinking is excellent, and I will strive to put it into practice

Rellik, I kind of like your idea. Sort of like the hit causes the magic to be unleashed before being properly channeled; the power must manifest somehow, but the outcome is unpredictable. Explosions are almost always fun (especially when scattered body parts - that are not mine - are involved), but a random outcome (with explosions in the mix) holds more interest over the long-term.

Apr 18, 2021 14:38

@Rellik I think even then we concluded it was dangerous, because to get the +2 adrenaline you only have 3 hit points vs 5 dragons and you are in trouble when the feat chain ends! But, as you say, there are exceptions. The monsters might not all be melee monsters, for example, so will be inclined to run away instead of attacking. Reading the situation is, of course, part of the game.

The magic going awry if interrupted is quite an interesting idea.

Apr 19, 2021 5:07

Idea for Elf: During feat-mode, the normal (i.e. currently-in-place) options OR the ability to leap “scroll-distance” w/o using a leap scroll. The “super-leap” would use up the Feat in one move.

Apr 19, 2021 20:39

Couple of thoughts:

Re: Changing the mechanics of the game to keep things interesting. I like the idea of having monsters that help the player. Exploding Mages could be one example. In a previous thread, I mentioned the possibility of monsters (either randomly assigned or monster types) that would not attack the player, unless attacked first. Another alternative is the monster that actually HELPS the player to kill monsters, unless attacked by the player. Figuring out which monsters in the room were friends and which were not would be part of the complexity. New and different tactics would have to be developed.

Re: Limiting the number of mages in the room. I would vote for keeping things as they are now. Mainly the issue is that the player needs to change tactics (a LOT) depending on the number of Mages, and their distribution in the room.. Keeping the Mages from repeatedly enlarging themselves (and other monsters) is a unique low-probability but high-danger situation. Spending scrolls to keep things from getting out of hand is part of the game, just like dealing with hopelessly bad weapons or an insufficient number of potions.

Re: The recent spate of players changing their names. Is there (in fact) a limit to the number of characters that are available for that purpose? And is “Homicidal” really accurate, unless Dragons are People. too?

–Just wondering

Apr 20, 2021 0:38

I have a question concerning bull-rush-into-pit-feats. If I have a chance for a massive hit (e.g. because of press, full swing etc.) are these also included in the bull-rush-into-pit to create a feat or do I just have the feat chance of 1/12 when pushing a monster into a pit?

Apr 20, 2021 6:16

THAT is why I LIKE to play bare hands: Blue dragons in campaign (6). Last dragon, last hit point for both of us and a coin flip decision on the last haste scroll (all other scrolls also used up). It is only 6 dragons but ALWAYS feels like die hard.

Apr 20, 2021 9:45

Bare Hand, please share the secret of how you get to the dragons’ lair w/ only starting weapons? Is there an option for not taking treasure now that I don’t know about?

Apr 20, 2021 10:58

Hi, Chad.

There is always an option to not kill everything in the room, right? Additionally, with only 6 dragons (and therefore only one lair room) it would not matter whether the lair room contained a weapon chest, or not.

BTW, is this a reference to the line in the original (text) version of Adventure, wherein the question that the program asks is “With what? Your bare hands?”–and the only answer that the program accepts is “Yes”?

Apr 20, 2021 12:14

You could say Yes???

Someone get me a time machine.

Apr 20, 2021 12:27

@Bare Hand - even with the weapons, playing Basic is like that for me at 10 dragons, maybe 15 if I get lucky! And OMG you’ve got 6 dragons with +1 weapons 4 times in a row already!

I’ve always reckoned that there is no chance of Massive Hit if you push a monster into a pit, as it’s rather unheroic (and the dice don’t roll). Certainly I’ve never got a feat from it.

@Chad Icon - collect the stuff you need without killing all the monsters in the room (difficult). Then you don’t have to take the weapons. I suspect that, since it’s difficult to collect specific stuff, Bare Hand collects just exactly what he needs to beat the dragons and nothing more. And if he underestimates, or it goes a bit wrong, he goes back and gets some more. Oh and yes it’s hard to get through the mines with +1 weapons too.

@beetletoe - even with 10 dragons (Bare Hand’s best, I believe!), if you play Basic there is no Golden Chest and no Mithril, so only one weapon chest between the two rooms. Just play that room last.

There are some monsters which might help the player already - cavern crawlers, purple worms, shamblers, gas spores, the reaper and even mages’ fireballs can be helpful to the player, although also not helpful if you’re in the wrong place! Having something that is not a foe until attacked would be an interesting addition but might need a new algorithm for movement.

Apr 20, 2021 12:48

@Rowdius - The keys to the time machine are here or you could look on Google Play!!

Hooray for open source :-)

Apr 20, 2021 15:23

Unfortunately, lacking a time machine, the best that I can do is a link and a quotation from the link. It does agree with what I remember:

Shortly after the snake we come to the dragon, described with almost identical language and a mechanically similar obstacle: it seems to block access to more of the cave, you can’t just slip past it, and attempts to kill it through conventional means are fruitless: “THE AXE BOUNCES HARMLESSLY OFF THE DRAGON’S THICK SCALES.”


Apr 20, 2021 15:29

Just to be clear, the Dragon is the ONLY thing that you can kill with your bare hands. How you get through the rest of the dungeon is anybody’s guess.

Apr 20, 2021 21:25

Thanks, Raand. I must confess that I never actually played Adventure, or at least not much of it. I started with Zork. I will use the time machine and do what I should have done a long time ago.

Apr 21, 2021 2:01

Sry I didn’t know that! That game is a bit older than me. However, I like that spirit. Of course I also have to let some monsters alive. You can see this in this screenshot-compilation I made earlier. It is hard work to not take weapons. I must admit, that I finished the 6 green dragons with a +3 shield that I got because the worm killed the last monster in the mines. I thought “+3 shield is bare hand enough”. I didn’t want to restart the campaign at that point because of this silly shield (that is not enough to block a dragon).

What I can propose is a “die hard” campaign-mode. With no weapons anywhere, but +n weapons from the start with n=min(9,number of lair rooms). I think it is possible to win as advanced dungeoneer.

Apr 21, 2021 7:09

I started with “Erik the Viking” :-) I had a quick play on the online one I posted above (which I also never played). It reminded me just exactly how frustrating old text adventure games can be!!

Apr 21, 2021 15:04

For some players, the game is too easy until a very high fame level is reached. As a result, the process of rising in fame is boring and feels like a grind.

So we’d like to hear thoughts on this idea:


If you win a career game resoundingly, you may choose a Challenge Level to use for the next game. A Challenge Level adds one of a monster type to every room in the dungeon (eg. some sort of rat is added to every room). Challenge Level 1 would be one of the weakest monster types (rats, kobolds, etc.), Challenge Level 2 would be one step up (goblins, frogs, etc.), and so on.

If you win a game with a challenge level, then you get a big XP bonus at the end of the game, which is given to all heroes (like Cross Training, for those who remember that). The higher the challenge level, the larger the XP bonus.


If you are playing an normal game (with no challenge level), then you need to win the game with 3+ health potions. If you finish with exactly 3 potions, you are given the Challenge Level 1 option on the next game. If you finish with 4 potions, you can choose between challenge levels 1 and 2. If you finish with 5 potions, you get the 1, 2 and 3 options. And so on.

If you are already playing with a Challenge Level, then all you need to do is win the game to be able to use the same challenge level on the next game. And for each potion you finish with, the challenge level goes up. So if you win a challenge level 2 game with 2 potions remaining, on the next game you could choose a level up to 4.


If you triggered a challenge level on the prior game, when starting the next game might see a dialog like this:

Your prior victory was so resounding that you may to choose a challenge level for this run:   Level 0 - No extra challenge [Select]
Level 1 - A rat is added to each room. Victory  [Select]
Level 2 - A goblin is added to each room [Select]
Level 3 - A lizardman is added to each room [Select]

If you win: The total XP earned will be multiplied by the challenge level and then awarded to each hero as a bonus. So if you attain a level 2 victory, and you earn 1,000 XP in the process, then each hero will be awarded an extra 2,000 XP (6,000 total). You may then play the next game using up to the same challenge level plus one level for each extra potion you finish with. 

If you lose: You will not have the Challenge option again until you win a game with 3 or more health potions remaining.

Apr 21, 2021 17:51


That sounds awesome, more than once I’ve finished a game with 5+ potions (I think my best is 10 potions left) and 1 extra monster in each room is WELL WELL worth the challenge.

Apr 21, 2021 18:50

I think it sounds pretty cool, Rowdius. Hopefully it is only an option for ADVANCED player$.

Apr 22, 2021 0:20

THAT sounds right and a good way do differentiate between advanced and non-advanced players. However, if you add a dragon to each room, this should then count as small jump in career (maybe only the additional number of red dragons count for that) if you win that (and kill ALL dragons).
What would be the number of potions to start with additional dragons? 10?

Apr 22, 2021 0:40

I kill dargon with my bare hands. I have killed 60 ettins in the last hunt. But, I complained about Gargoyles last time. And agein! +5 base? REALLY? The archers hurt and the melees are not to hit. I must be lucky to even kill 20! That is way too hard. How do you calculate +5? That is close to minotaurs, and bull-rush is not possible. 6/5 with no archers or 6/9 +archers is a HUGE difference. I would say 2-3 base points.

Apr 22, 2021 5:51

I am reporting a bug. Or, re-reporting a bug again for the second or third time. I TIRED of it!

Panic and the leap-attack. IF a monster is going to be panicked, it MUST indicate so upon Elf’s landing!!!! NOT, and I repeat NOTNOTNOT one move afterward.

I love playing Elf, but it’s not easy b/c she’s so easy to hit. One must strateeji-cate carfully (which is part of the fun).

The programmers in their infinite wisdom bestowed upon her the ability to panic enemies when she o’er-leaps them with her thighs of steel and blade of same … FOR A CHANCE TO MOVE AWAY AFTERWARD AND AVOID THEIR BLUSHING VENGENCE!! (“Ooh, I should have been defending, instead of staring, when she leaped over me; didn’t see that sword-point coming for my eye! I’m still alive! Now, ehem (don’t judge me!), I’m gonna, um, SMASH her. Yeah, that’s it.)

So she lands. Are they panicked? No? Okay, so then she leaps again. to avoid the counterstrike. And…. THEN THEY’RE PANICKED!

Absolutely maddening! It is a BUG! If it is not a bug, then what’s the point of her capability to induce panic?

It needs to be fixed, and there have been at least two code updates since i reported it. Fix. The. Bug!

end of rant. we now return you to your regular programming

Apr 22, 2021 6:07

I am a bit confused by the entire concept.

So, this challenge level is supposed to apply to games in Career and/or Campaign and/or Tournament?

The 1000 XP that you get for exterminating rats (or at least avoiding them) gets added to your point total BEFORE the total gets multiplied by your usual XP bonus percentage total? Then only 1000 times the bonus gets applied to the other character types (rather than a sharing of a percentage of the XP, as in the old system)?

In my experience, the number of potions that you finish the game with is strongly related to the (random) number of potions that were available to find in the first place; the number of Dragons that you needed to kill; and the (random) number of scrolls that were available to help you save on potions; the (random) quality of your weapons (and whether you found them in the first places that you looked);

In other words, mostly outside of the player’s control, and not necessarily an indication of skillful play.

As things stand now, you get XP for what you kill, and not for what simply populates the place. I am unclear on how much harder the Dungeon is going to be by adding a few rats to the recipe. You don’t actually have to fight them–or you can wait to fight them until after you have found and equipped the Dragon-quality weapons.

Now, on to the “cheating” issue.

I can recall a brief period, over the course of maybe about a week, some time ago, when Dungeoneers decided to put a priority on accumulating potions at the end of the game. As I recall, you could start to amass a stock of them, and trade in your unused potions for things like entries in the daily Hunt and in the Tournament (do I recall correctly?) But I forget the name of the in-game currency that players were able to trade potions for at the time.

Well, it quickly became apparent that winning a level-up game with a SMALL number of extra potions was a mistake (because accepting the level promotion then represented a lost opportunity.)

Depending on how significant the proposed extra XP bonus is (I am not entirely clear on that), you might (once again) see players resign lots of games until a game with a high number of potions (and other goodies) came along.

So, how is the latest scheme any different? Fundamentally, you want to award points for Rats instead of Dragons. Why not, instead, at the end of the game, offer the player the option to (1) End the game or (2) Generate additional dragons and Giants and Ettins, and continue the game, where killing the extra bonus monsters would be worth a lot more XP.

Thus, when you finish the game, get the option to find 10 additional Dragons, each worth 5X what a usual Dragon is (but no harder to kill). Kill those, and get the option to find 10 more dragons, each worth 10X.

This progression could go on without any specific limit, and allow players who were having good luck/skill, relative to the current “starting number” of Dragons, to win XP (but this time deservedly so) at a much accelerated rate.

In other words, Rellik can win lots of extra XP for killing 80 Dragons in a 50-dragon level.

And nobody ever finds their current level to be boring, because (like the Hunt) everybody eventually dies, and nobody comes out of it alive.

Apr 22, 2021 6:26

Or, come to think of it, kill 2 birds with one stone by letting players keep their left-over potions for use in their next HUNT. Extra opportunity to win XP at an accelerated rate, without affecting the progress of their Career/Campaign/Tournament games.

Apr 22, 2021 6:26

Mostly I don’t die :D However, I like the idea of adding extra dragons. It would make additional sense to ask: “New dragons approaching”, do you want to throw weapons away and run - or fight?” The rooms could be filled with e.g. 2.5 dragons per lair room.
We finally would have a reason, why the hero always starts with crap!

But I also like the idea of harder dungeons, if that returns anything usefull and is bound to skill. Maybe we can combine all this. We have the chance to append dragons and to increase the difficulty level. E.g. the number of monster dens could be increased until each room is like that. That gives more loot! You could let us choose between 3 levels: “less”, “same”, or “more”. More could be restricted by an achievement (e.g. won the last level).

ChadIcon: I don’t get the problem. The status is provided when the attack is performed. However, it would be cool, to have that status visible with mousover together with the stats (make attack value gray or whatever).

Apr 22, 2021 7:13

ChadIcon, there is a revamp of the panic UI on the agenda that should address your concerns.

Apr 22, 2021 8:37

@Chad Icon - If we do challenge levels, I’d like them to be for Basic as well as Advanced. If players think the game is too easy, they are less likely to upgrade. And the challenge level concept would be difficult to explain as an advanced feature.

@Bare Hand - I don’t see the challenge level getting a high as dragons. As you point out, it would confuse the fame level progress.

@beetletoe -

I was thinking the challenge level system would just be for career mode. Although we might want to do something similar for campaigns as well.

I don’t agree that the number of health potions you end a victory is out of the player’s control, at least not any more than is one’s ability to win games in the first place. The amount of health you have left is “how much you won by” and is generally reflective of how well you played.

Let’s not get into the details of the XP awards. What I used as an example would certainly change. The point is that there would be some XP award. As you say, we don’t want the award to be so high that it is in the player’s interest to resign marginally winnable games because they’d rather win big, or not win at all. (I suppose we could say that if you resign, you lose the ability to trigger challenge modes for the next level. Or we could say that you can only trigger a challenge mode on your first play-through of a particular level.)

The idea of adding post-victory dragons is interesting, but does not address the above issue. If the XP awarded from the post-victory dragons is high enough, there would be the same incentive to resign games that you are not going to win big.

Things I don’t like about the post-victory dragons idea are:

– It confuses the basic quest mechanic: “Kill X dragons to save the village and rise in fame.”
– It removes the “I won!” moment for skilled players, where nearly every game would end in eventually fleeing the dungeon.
– It doesn’t add variety to the early game and dungeon itself.
– Once you reach a high a fame level, the game is already too heavy on the dragons.

I definitely don’t want to transfer excess potions to the hunt mode. I’d like modes to be kept separate. And I’d like each hunt to be the same for everyone (other than the heroes used).

@Rellik - Adding more dens is another way to go too. I’m concerned that the added difficulty is not very clear because, as you say, dens also include extra loot. Also, each difficulty level would be the same (X more dens) whereas the original proposal would have some variety - for example, a level 2 challenge might sometimes be goblins, sometimes frogs, sometimes hags, etc.

Apr 22, 2021 8:45

Unlike Rellik, who never seems to die, it seems that I almost always do, particularly in the Hunt, where, eventually, the supply of +15 monsters seems inexhaustable.

The game, as it exists now, is an excellent example of the Peter Principle, wherein players rise steadily, skillfully overcoming all obstacles, until they rise to their level of incompetence, and get stuck there.

Or, at least, they find some level to get stuck around until they either improve their game, or get awarded additional skills (either when they collect enough XP or when the rules change to make further progress easier).

So, right now, the discussion seems to be about how to allow players to reach their levels of incompetence sooner, and with less tedium.

Needless to say, that will not actually solve the problem, but perhaps succeed in pushing it further into the distance.

To achieve a more lasting solution, simply consider that the current problem (now under discussion) is entirely due to the fact that, in any given dungeon game, the supply of Dragons and other monsters is finite.

Apr 22, 2021 9:01

Hi, Rowdius.

It appears that you and I were posting at the same time. I see your point about players resigning early to make sure that they got a better shot at bonus XP, if those were available.

Perhaps one solution is to award more XP for the 41st-thru-50th dragon than for the 31st-thru-40th dragon. This same scoring table could apply REGARDLESS of whether the 50th dragon was killed on what was nominally a 40-dragon level or a 50-dragon level. The XP scoring could be the same (which gives you a way to use up extra HP, and NO incentive to avoid finishing a level).

It is also entirely consistent with the fact that it is genuinely HARDER to kill the 50th dragon in a series than to kill the 1st dragon in the same series, and the XP scoring could easily reflect that fact.

Apr 22, 2021 9:45

Thanks, beetletoe. But I think we’re trying to solve different problems.

Your suggestion to have a game’s later dragon kills count for more XP would make games more interesting for players who have “petered out” because they’d be rewarded for coming close to winning, even if they don’t win. (We actually used to do that a long time ago.)

But my proposed challenge system is meant for relatively early players who have figured out how to play well, but are still quite far away from reaching fame levels that are difficult for them to win. The challenge system allows those players to have a more challenging experiences as they make their way to fame levels that are difficult for them. An alternative would be to just let players skip fame levels, but I prefer the challenge level approach, since I feel like skipping fame levels is skipping the game.

Apr 22, 2021 10:37

Hi, Rowdius.

I believe that I am addressing the problem of skillful (or lucky) Early players, in addition to making things interesting for the high-level Peter players.

Imagine that a player (of whatever level) is playing Career, Campaign, or Tournament against 1 Red Dragon. The player kills 1 Red Dragon, and thereby qualifies to advance to play in the next round (against 2 white or 2 red, depending on the sort of game), no matter what happens next.

The player still has 10 potions, and good weapons. For the beginning player, whose characters have few skills, the player has an incentive to fight as many newly generated Red dragons as the player can survive. The startup cost (getting thru all the dungeon areas) has already been paid, and the newly killed dragons will pay XP at a higher and higher rate, the longer the player survives. There is no sense that the 1-dragon goal was too easy, and the game a waste of time, because it is not the only goal. To win more levels/skills (consistent with the player’s talent) provides the incentive.

For the high-level player, there would be a choice with (happily) no bad alternatives. The player could take advantage of the happenstance of good equipment and left-over potions, to try to win extra XP. In the Tournament, this player only gets credit for finishing the 1-dragon round, but could potentially kill 40 or 50 extra generated dragons, before dying, and collecting the unusually large dragon bounties that would be awarded (routinely) for the later dragons in this series.

Alternatively, the player could decide to be more concerned with Tournament ranking than with XP. That player could spend the time and effort and mental energy, instead, going straight to Round 2.

Everybody gets what they want. Everybody wins.

Apr 22, 2021 10:49

Other topic:

I would vote for making the Epic Deeds list longer, so that we can get an idea of how other players are doing, what they are using, and what items they are left with at the end.

Due to the increase in player participation, people are now dropping off the end of the list after 24 minutes; and most of the people on the list are inexperienced.

Otherwise (for example) how are we to get a sense (in advance) of how difficult a particular Hunt is going to be for each possible character and skill level (and therefore, how to approach rationing the use of our items)?

Apr 22, 2021 11:06

Okay, I misunderstood your last suggestion. I thought you were suggesting that the normal dragons in a game awarded increasingly high XP awards. I did not know that it was a modification to the extra dragons idea. I agree that the extra dragons idea addresses the same problem, but I still prefer the challenge level approach, for the reasons I gave.

And good suggestion about the Epic Deeds list.

Apr 22, 2021 12:01

Thanks, Rowdius.

Actually, increasing the XP awards on the later dragons makes sense to me, regardless of whether there are extra dragons or not.

Yes, extra dragons, plus extra XP awards later in the dragon series, does a good job with Newbies (and with experienced players, for different reasons).

However, extra XP, even without extra dragons, seems like a good idea for higher-level players who are stuck near their Peter Principle level, and are up to the stage of losing most of the Career and Campaign games that they play (and get frustrated and quit).

As long as the big reward, late in Career and Campaign, is only the win, ITSELF, then the balance favors quitting unlucky games early, and re-starting. However, once the time has already been sunk into exploring the map and getting the items, I believe that the balance could favor staying in your seat, IF the reward for late-in-series Dragons were high enough.

Right now, my impression is–I think that I am seeing the XP reward for a successful Hunt being 10X or 20X the reward for a completed extermination of about 60 Dragons. So, right now, what is my incentive for staying in my seat after a particular Dragon hunt becomes unwinnable? At least a larger reward for later dragons would make it seem as if I were making some (XP) progress, even if the target Dragon number did not go up right away.

You mentioned that having had the sequence of Dragon rewards on a sliding scale at some point in the past. So, why was that practice stopped?

Apr 22, 2021 12:09

Random other thought–Are we ever going to see a Hunt for Purple Worms and/or Specters?

Or have we had those already, and I just didn’t start Hunting soon enough?

Apr 22, 2021 20:58

Can you please change the gargoyles value of +5 weapons to something higher? the archer version has a 7 defense and the normal ones have a 9, how do you justify +5 for us? the fact that they turn to stone usually when you hit them? that is of little use when you have 10 of them in the room trying to get you stoned (and most of us aren’t much good at anything when we’re stoned)

Apr 22, 2021 22:36

why can’t we reset and restart??? this is so stupid

Apr 22, 2021 23:35

Hunt for Purple Worms might not be compatible with the dwarf: Summon a worm. Don’t get hit. Kill the worm. Repeat. :-)

Spectres are an absolute pain in the hunt. Unlike the ruins, you don’t know at all that they are in the room until they mess up your plans. I had a perfectly safe move calculated based on the ginormous archer having to move one space closer instead of long-range shooting because there was an open path it could follow. Except there wasn’t, because the spectre was blocking it.

Apr 23, 2021 3:20

@beetletoe: I don’t play hunt, that does bare hand only ;) @raand9999 I fully agree. Is there anything that tells, that there could be a specter? With what other monsters does it come together or a special background?
@xlotanx you can resign in the options menu
@deeds a filter “only the best” could help that shows only the 42 bests of everything. Meaning: The best 42 hunts, campaigns, tournaments and careers of the current day.
monster dens: I think they FEEL difficult, even if there is loot. If each room is a den, the game gets a really tough feeling. Isn’t that more important than if it really IS more difficult? The good thing with more loot is, that high-rank and skilled players can use it to kill more dragons, also. You could introduce traps/holes in the mines and ruins that let the hero suddenly slip into those (additional) dens. They have no exit, we can only leave, by beating everything. If this is den-difficulty, this is REALLY dangerous. After escape there could be a pit on that place and the hero is next to it.
In any way the problem might be, that it even slows progress. Your other idea to boost progress speed by “burning” scrolls or potions might be also a way to go, if it is too easy. Or you just take away parts of the dungeon to increase difficulty (e.g. one tunnel flooded, collapsed ruin or mine rooms…).
Let me comment your good points very differently:
– It confuses the basic quest mechanic: “Kill X dragons to save the village and rise in fame.”
– It removes the “I won!” moment for skilled players, where nearly every game would end in eventually fleeing the dungeon.
Maybe this is a selling point: What about resurrection of some dragons as bone dragons? This would fit together with the “planned” underworld. Maybe one can stop this there. At a certain fame level (and get loot there). So you have the choice to “fight more” or “do the underworld” at a certain point of fame. Another option would be from something like 50 fame on: “Mission completed, the dragons are dead. Do you want to party in the village or visit the enraged dragon god to ask how he feels?” If so: -> Fight in another lair room a fully upsized dragon that has the first turn, burns your equip to zero with a 4-range breath (I know, I am crazy). There you can burn all scrolls and potions that you have left…

– It doesn’t add variety to the early game and dungeon itself.
True. One could have both. Traps would add most “variety”. – Once you reach a high a fame level, the game is already too heavy on the dragons.
So dragon god, is the way to go? ;)

Then I would not so much think in difficulty levels by adding monsters, but “restriction modes”. E.g. a “magical timing” mode is where you can only use one (random) kind of scroll per turn. That forces to differentiate gameplay a lot. A frog or hag more seems not like a huge variety.
However, I think the dragon god is enough excitement ;)

Apr 23, 2021 4:54

Just stopped by to say that the new wheat field backgrounds are most excellent.

I would have followed you to the fires of Doom

Apr 23, 2021 6:24

Idea for Human: “Pinion” to attack and enemy, and - if successful - step into the hex they occupied. Similar to the bull-rush, but w/ a fresh strategical take.

My thinking went like this… So Human can step (i.e. “shove”), then strike; Why not strike, then step? In both maneuvers he gets to, literally, take two actions (shove (or “step” forward while shoving), then attack w/ sword) . It is the same capability in reversed order.

I’ve encountered situations where that capability would prove advantageous.

Normally, you can see your percentage chance on an attack, as you could for the “pinion” maneuver. Maybe it’s a little harder to do (i.e. lowers odds by 5% or something).

Or maybe if you fail you lose a turn; or the only action possible right after failure is “defend”. or something. Or - maybe - it’s just a normal move Human can do.

Spitballin’, you know…

Against some powers I have not yet been tested.

Apr 23, 2021 7:57

There are indeed cases, when I thought “oh come on, just push that kobold out of that corner, so that the archer cannot attack me”. The question is: How to implement that for the user? I got another idea for mostly the same situations which is pretty cool, but maybe hard to implement for the developer: Instead of punt (which is sometimes a bad thing!), the hero has the ability to grap small humanoids next to him when attacked by a bow and use them as ehm “humanoid shield”. That would be SO AWESOME! Then the need to push that kobold out of that corner is not that high any more.

Apr 23, 2021 10:39

Bare Hand- It’s a meat-shield! Any TTRPGers worth their dice has used them (and sometimes hires them) time and again. Sometimes a spare carcass will do. But live? Ha! it’s a two-fer. Shield, and someone else wastes them,

Apr 23, 2021 19:21

reset my game

Apr 23, 2021 20:49

Come now, a typo in each of the swamp troll hunt conversations, and nobody mentions anything?

Apr 24, 2021 0:12

The joke with the huge nose was too flat, to notice anything else ;)

Apr 24, 2021 5:41

So, killing ghosts with fire in the Hunt doesn’t score up an ectoplasm????

Apr 24, 2021 6:20

It would be nice if the basic/advanced indicator returned on the stats. If there’s no space, something as simple as displaying a silver star for Basic and a gold star for Advanced would be sufficient. It would work everywhere (since you probably have one standard routine that displays that in many places).

beetletoe - I think someone else mentioned something similar with ghosts in the hunt some time back.

Apr 24, 2021 9:37

Masterleep just fixed the ghost bug. Flamed ghosts now award ectoplasm.

Apr 24, 2021 10:46

Second time is the charm? :)

Apr 24, 2021 13:31

Managed to get a Massive Hit with a +1 sword! :-D

Apr 25, 2021 1:15

What they don’t count? I got 92 ghosts and flamed 9 … :/

Apr 25, 2021 10:36

Bug: Have noticed several times that if I have 2 moves in feat mode, and I move up (one move) and then bull-rush, the feat mode ends at the end of the push before the attack, and I do not get the feat bonus when the dice are rolled.

Apr 27, 2021 1:00

As long as there is no ranking for the hunt, we could make (or declare) one thread for daily hunt results. I could paste my daily result (today 141 hags) and we all could compare and compet.

Apr 27, 2021 12:26

I lost half my health when I was still only on 2 hags :-( … …but then I got another 103 with the rest :-D (105 hags altogether)

Not a bad idea Barefoot Experience. You can look through the Deeds to get some idea, but you can only see the people who played a little earlier that way.

Apr 28, 2021 0:41

Again a very lucky run. 112 Mushroom men today. A benchmark for everyone. ;)

Apr 28, 2021 12:55

The “best hunt so far” is now shown on the bottom of the hunt start page.

Apr 28, 2021 13:30

So it is. Thanks Rowdius!

(And that’s some score of 192 Mushroom men from MisterBook!)

Apr 28, 2021 23:44

Thanks Rowdius. Unluckily I had to resign at 200 mushroom men because todays time went out…

Apr 29, 2021 4:23

Let’s see how helpful that information really is. Mostly this will be a very lucky run and by far not “average”. Maybe half of that number will already be “pretty good”. It would be cool do expand that towards “best human, dwarf, elf”. This at least would give everyone a hint what to use.

Apr 29, 2021 11:20

Wow that is pretty cool already. Now we can see the leading hunt hero. That might already be a good hint!

Apr 29, 2021 15:42

I wish to file a formal protest: When you know EXACTLY where a specter is, and you know they haven’t moved (b/c you’re still in stealth mode from when you entered the room) and you use a bolt scroll, it should have a chance to hit it. Popping fungus-balls do. So I consider this a bug. BUG REPORT!!

Apr 29, 2021 18:18

Question: why is a Specter invisible but you can see the ghosts?

Apr 29, 2021 23:25

I think you cannot see the ghost, but only the “materialization”. THIS is not invisible. The Specters are something else…

Interestingly this varies as I read through the difference… E.G. they are not “souls” but monsters that eat souls (e.g. monsters on “the other side”, that somehow made it here) or maybe even creations of your mind (e.g. you see a crack towards time/space&hell and this horrifies you. That crack moves towards you, for several possible reasons (attraction, evil force…). As this is not very scientific I can only conclude that the concept is not “materialized soul”, but something else.

Apr 30, 2021 13:15

I kind of agree with ChadIcon there. You cast the bolt scroll in a line from where you are, and it hits everything in the way. You don’t aim it at a particular monster. The spectre is there even though you can’t see it, as evidenced by exploding gas spores, the reaper slaying invisible spectres, other monsters avoiding the space. So I think it should get hit. I’ve never tried, but I bet if you flame an invisible spectre it appears and gets stuck in the fire.

Apr 30, 2021 13:18

On another point, I really like the hunt high score. I was just thinking my score of 86 lizardmen wasn’t all that huge given the recent high scores for mushroom men etc. But then I saw the high score was only 117 lizardmen and it made me feel a whole lot better about my 86 :-)

Apr 30, 2021 15:26

haha, Raand, you 86’ed a bunch of lizardmen? Noice!

Apr 30, 2021 16:06

Hey, all.

Tomorrow we’re going to announce the creation of our Dungeoneers Discord Community. It would be great if you all could test it out let us know if it looks okay. Also, if you aren’t already familiar with Discord, please familiarize yourself with it. It would be nice to hit the ground running tomorrow.

The forum we are using now will remain in place. (We are NOT 86’ing it.) The Discord server is for players who want to take things up a notch, with images, videos, and screen sharing so people can talk while watching each other play.

Apr 30, 2021 19:38

How about instead of constantly changing skills trying to improve them, you give a hero 1 extra HP in their bar when they hit a certain level so that the human/dwarf have 4 and the elf has 3.

Apr 30, 2021 21:52

Wasn’t it beetletoe yesterday with 117 scales? Now it is chessdude. Is it the lower level that made him first or do you overwrite the first one?
May own hunt ended with 108 or so with a hunkering dwarf that was not capable to defend/resist a freaking hag-3-fireball. SO many chances do die, but THAT was ugly.

Apr 30, 2021 22:02

This is a pedantic detail, but in the channel the rules, the headlines of the points don’t seem to have a consistent writing with capital letters (to me). E.g. “No Inappropriate Language”, but “No advertisements”. At least, that was the only thing I saw (but I’m not a real benchmark).

May 1, 2021 5:31

@Rellik - it was beetletoe when I looked. But I think it would be fair for a lower level hero to replace a higher level one on the high score if the number of monsters is equal. I think the earlier one should stay if the monsters and the levels are equal. Commiserations on getting hit at +9 vs +3. If you still had trinkets it was 3/120 chance by my reckoning.

@Earththunder - that would be a big increase because then every potion would be worth an extra hit point. If I head into the lair with 10 potions and a 4-hit dwarf I am taking 40 hit points instead of 30. That is something like 15 dragons’ worth extra.

May 2, 2021 7:56

If you noticed two people with the same number of hunt items being displayed on the village hunt page, that probably means the sort order is wrong for the best hunt. It should stick with the person who got there first, like the other standings. I’ll look at it.

May 3, 2021 3:02

LOL , today’s hunt was more like a Troll hunt with the occasional crocodile to throw down a hole. I get it; you have to HUNT through all the trolls, specters and ghosts to FIND the crocodiles. yeah, yeah…. that’s it!

May 3, 2021 7:06

Lol! That looks just like the comment I made to Earththunder or someone some time back! :-)

May 4, 2021 2:40

What I don’t like in hunts is bad defense luck - especially on the last 3 hit points. A silly rat biting through a 9 defense is typially destroying all dreams of a good hunt. I wonder if we could introduce a hunt-resist or make trinkets work differently. Something like: If I throw a 1,2 or 3 AND the enemy a 8,9 or 10 AND even the combination 8,3 would normally not hit me, THEN I get the special-hunt-trinket-resist if the enemy does not miss. I know such 1% actions are also important in a long run hunt, seriously. But on the other hand an awesome hunt is typically that, that just didn’t suffered that 1% hit although 100 chances had been there.

May 4, 2021 2:43

Oh! We, could introduce that as additional adrenaline bonus! Being haunted by bad luck until death is never fun.

May 4, 2021 7:06

LOL: A dragon MISSED me today (for the first time) with 11 attack against a 1-shield (+adrenaline).

May 4, 2021 9:12

“Bug”: The “sad” is missing when you kill x-1 of x dragons and are killed by something else but the last one. Maybe the best word for that is “freaking”…

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