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Simplifed Bull Rushing
Dungeoneers
Feb 24, 2021 11:48

And new sound system

We’ve made these changes to the Bull Rush ability:

  • You can shove a monster into pits even if there are other places to shove it.
  • The panic effect after shoving a monster into a pit only applies to monsters adjacent to that pit.
  • Instead of not being able to bull rush monsters of humongous size, you cannot bull rush monsters with more than 5 defense (or more than 1 hp, as before).

And a few days ago we upgraded the way we play music in the game, for better timing and reduced bandwidth. Sound good?

Feb 24, 2021 17:14

The pop-up with the new rules still doesn’t come up when you start the Hunt.
I got caught out with both changes. At least it wasn’t the Tournament.

Feb 27, 2021 8:50

After playing under the new design, I like it. I think I would like it better if you traded the “panic” effect (as in no one panics) for eliminating the defense limit on 1hp monsters (as in all 1hp monsters of less-than humongous size are pit-pushable) but beggars can’t be choosers as my grandpappy used to say. And accepted my original suggestion, only slightly modified! I feel honored… Awesome game; keep up the amazing work, and thank you!

Feb 28, 2021 6:44

ALERT: Just a moment ago, in daily hunt, a monster moved into a space with fire still in it.

Mar 1, 2021 10:54

hi there, been a while since i played, rl issues get the best of us, liking a lot of the changes, just 1 quick question, what happened to seeing the exp rewarded and increasing it with mana? went through the news and didn’t see anything about that? maybe i missed it?

Mar 1, 2021 13:08

Welcome back from rl, edyit.

Mana went the way of the dodo bird. We replaced it with the Basic/Advanced system in March 2020. (Perhaps the best thing to come out of 2020.)

Mar 3, 2021 9:00

I think caverns may be too easy now with the human. I fear it would be a lot of changes, but maybe one could make only beetles, bugs, rats, scorpions, snakes and spiders “disapear” in the water pit and larger monsters could crawl out again (but still do not move there by themselves). Of course a normal attack would still happen. It might be also funny if they try to crawl out of the water on the opposite side (avoid the hero and adjacent tiles, but still try to leave the water as long as they are in).

Mar 3, 2021 11:19

Thanks, Bare Hand. Do others agree that the new bull rush makes the caverns too easy for the human?

A simpler approach would be to have fewer caverns 1 hp monsters and slightly more 2 hp monsters.

Mar 3, 2021 16:05

Even if caverns are easier for human, it may not be too much issue if it’s balanced by higher difficulty later on, e.g. in lair.

Mar 3, 2021 16:42

Rowdius, I do not think it makes it too easy. My thought was that the enemies would be shocked at the human’s brutal actions. Therefore, the monsters directly adjacent to the Human - rather than to the pit - would be the stunned ones. I don’t know how that effects the game dynamics except to force players to adjust their tactics a little. But it’s also kinda the same thing

Mar 3, 2021 16:59

I prefer to imagine the other monsters gaping as they stare down the pit to which they also are adjacent.

Mar 3, 2021 18:00

Like, “Jupiter’s ghost, that could have been me!!”

Mar 3, 2021 18:07

Exactly like that.

Mar 3, 2021 23:34

When I activley change the gameplay I am used to in the dirction of “pit-push-everything”, due to the new freedom, it feels simple, when the pits are in good places. However, 2-health monsters are not easy to fight, so that should be done carefully. But I think it is a good idea. Maybe just some monsters like: ugly frog, a new hag chief and the giant snake with reduced attack (2) and defense (-2). It should not happen too often, that a whole room is full of 2 hp monsters, especially not with high attack. The best defense against high attack values is making the first hit the final one and there is hardly any other strategy if there are too many of them.

Mar 6, 2021 1:31

I can see where Bare Hand is coming from with it being simple when the pits are well placed. I’m not convinced about increasing the number of 2hp monsters though. That removes the possibility of bull rush not into a pit as well. With no bull rush you cannot move him so you end up losing press and maybe full swing. With +1 weapons and no potions a 2hp 4,1 monster like the shambler is risky to fight. The presence or absence of stronger monsters is a key consideration to getting the game off the ground at the beginning. I actively look for rooms with hags or beetles rather than crocs or spiders until I’ve got better weapons. When there are no such rooms available, the game can already be difficult to start.

Mar 6, 2021 3:03

This is why I would suggest (if doing so) to do it just a little. But would prefer making “tall 2-leg monsters” or “water monsters” (like frog) survive the “wet pit”. I think this is funny, feels real and provides an intersting dimension of the caverns, but it might be difficult to implement. So the question is what is: Is there a way to implement it easy? I don’t see a problem, that beginners might be “surprised” that some monsters survive the pit and others not, because “the rule” could be very “obious” (crocs survive!). There is just spiders or snakes that could be arguable in the one or other direction. In case of doubts, let it die and nobody will complain.

Mar 6, 2021 5:44

It’s not a big deal , but Bare Hand is onto something here. Just an observation, really. But on first level, why would shoving an alligator or a frog into a water-filled pit kill them? And if you go there, why snakes? Snakes IRL are good swimmers, so in-game they could just be “shoved” ACROSS the water-pit (of any width). The firebug could generate a cloud of steam and a hit/defense penalty for whomever is caught in it.

How about “shove a firebug into the water next to swampthing (ooo, hot! hot!) and drive it away 2 spaces in a random direction”?

“flavors” like that which don’t incur bonuses or penalties… well, you might leave those out of the “rules” descriptions and let players discover them (a little like the “skewer a slime”, a cool random foible that I and at least one other player discovered , because, wait, slimes cannot be killed by std weapons, except…!! … sigh… alas, it turned out to be a programming bug). It adds to the fun and could create “buzz”, like people creating tips and tricks pages for the game. yes, it’s me again, spitballin’

Mar 6, 2021 5:54

Idea: “SACRIFICE SHOVE” human has a 80% for 2hp monster (w/ defense <6) to shove into pit; success=human looses 1hp monster dies. failure=monster lives and responds like it’s a normal attack (i.e. hits back). 60% chance for 3hp monster, but human gives up 2 hp if successful

Mar 6, 2021 6:14

Odds look bad there. It’s not guaranteed and I lose one hit point anyway even if it works. If it fails my odds are worse than guarding. Why would I not either (a) guard or (b) strike first and hope for cleave? If it was guaranteed then at least you would have the ability to push through a 2 hp monster to get out of a potentially awkward situation.

Mar 6, 2021 13:18

I agree that the tactical situation would be dire for it to make sense to do it. But if your surrounded by ettins with few, or no, magic items, it might be a better alternative to shove one into a pit and leave the others momentarily flabbergasted while you run away, even if you take some lumps doing it.

Right now, the answer’s no. More than one hp? No. Non-negotiable. Some people - weird ones like me - might think it’s fun to just shove a freaking GIANT into a crevasse once in a while, even if that means taking some lumps to do so.

the percentages are just for example anyway. However, I rarely hesitate to attack w/ an 80% chance to hit. And in desperate situations, which even the best players get caught in sometimes, a 60% chance to make a 3-point kill might be gold.

You’re right though, that it’s hard to know how it might play out, or be useful in real play.

May 3, 2021 8:10

We should have the ability to shove monsters into flames, especially ghosts. It’s fire, not brick. No logical reason why it shouldn’t be possible. Maybe make it so that normal monsters can make a saving roll and succeed or fail, they extinguish the flames. Ghosts just evaporate. Not sure how slimes should be handled.

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