Seeking feedback …

We are considering the addition of Skill Quests, something like this:

Whenever a hero earns a new skill (Full Swing, Uppercut, etc.), a skill quest is activated, and you do not get to use the skill until you complete the quest. Example: The Swordsman must find and defeat the Ogre of Unusual Ugliness to earn the Full Swing skill.

Our thought is that the quests would be two levels: the second level would have the boss you need to kill, while the first level would have an optional sub-boss guarding an exceptional weapon. However, unlike the normal dungeon, the regions would be larger and outdoors (using the art from hunt regions) and there would not be level views (so you might feel a bit lost at first).

A couple things to consider: 1. Should skill quests be required before you can continue in career mode, or be an optional extra mode that you can do whenever you like? 2. If you have already earned the skills prior to the introduction of skill quests, should you lose your skills until the quests are done, or should you keep your skills and have the option of doing the skill quests just for fun?

Please comment in the forum or the in-game feedback form.

SOUNDS LIKE FUN!!!!!

I think it’s a great idea!

Skill quests should not be required, it’s enough that if you don’t do the quest you don’t acquire the skill. And yes, I’d like to do the quests even if I have some of the skills prior to this.

I think that if you have quests, they should be optional. But you don’t get the new skill until you do them. If you’re half-way through fighting a room when you get the XP, would you be able to break out to do the quest, or would you have to finish the room (or the game) first?

With Basic Dungeoneers, fame 41 and 8 dragons I’d have no chance if you took existing skills away so I’d be forced to go back and do all the skill quests before doing anything else. I suspect pretty much everyone at higher levels would be in the same boat. It’s hard to beat a monster den with +1 gear even when you do have extra skills.

Quests sound good, if they are included in the basic game, but NO to claw back of skills we already have.

Also, I don’t fancy the idea of repeating the same dungeon if you get killed.

I think that if there are skill quests it should be for new skills. The ones already present in the game should be available just by leveling up as it is right now.

I agree with dougto. It’s great if you want more quests, but they should be for other things, not skills that already exist. Some ideas would be attack trinkets (let you reroll a 1 on attacks) 1 more starting HP (start with 4, but potions still only heal 3. Only for career but can help until you get a better shield), or even a bit of story (eg, mayor’s daughter gets kidnapped)

If you have skill give bonus items like potions.

I enjoy playing this game, but have never payed money to do so and never will. Therefore my opinions are null and void. However, I am grateful to the developers for allowing a penniless chump like me to enjoy a few hours of distraction each week.

Skill quests sound like a wonderful idea! If they are implemented, I think replaying the for skills already acquired should be an option. For example, I’m at fame 43 with level 11 dwarf and human and level 10 elf, but I’d like to play the challenges to get the skills back, even if others don’t. Therefore, optional. It also sounds nice to only get the skill after completing the challenge. Makes the game less grindy

I think most people wouldn’t appreciate losing their skills and having to earn them back, and newer players shouldn’t be punished and have to do additional quests to earn skills. I know this isn’t the feedback you were looking for, but adding to my earlier list of possible rewards for optional quests instead:

+2 starting gear, sword/bow/shield merger (if you roll same equipment, current equipment gets +1 upgrade)

I am f2p and only on 3 dragons, so I apologize if some of these are unlocked later. I really enjoy this game and unique gameplay, but still depends a bit too much on luck rather than skill and strategy.

Skill quests help tell the story of the hero. Love it. With that being said…

1. Skill quests should be optional, but having these skills greatly increases your chances of survival.

2. Let the players keep their already earned skills, but allow them to complete the quests if they want to.

I love the idea of skill quests!

I favor requiring the skill quest to unlock the skill. I personally would favor having to do the quest to unlock previously earned skills, but I’m still a relatively low level player so I imagine doing this for higher level players would be something that might drive a few away. Is there a way to allow a one-time selection option? When the new skill quests go live existing players are asked to select whether they would like to activate the quest requirement to unlock previously-unlocked skills. That way, those of us who like that approach to character building can utilize that option and those who would view it as burdensome can keep playing with their existing character. I do understand this is likely to be something that would be too difficult to implement, but wanted to throw it out there.

I like the idea of using the outdoor maps without an area overview! If it’s possible to have specific battle areas connect to more than two other areas there would be the added component of making the map a little more maze-like, especially if there are specific battle areas that are being avoided because of a particularly nasty set of monsters or the need to find supplies.

Thanks for making an engaging and interesting game! Keep up the great work!

-Reaver

I’m glad that you’re thinking about things to try, but I don’t particularly agree with this concept. If you want to add quests, then it should be to gain something new, not to earn something that you’re already had for free.

I don’t remember seeing “a moderator needs to approve this post” before. I had a technical hiccup and I wonder if my previous post got lost in the Series of Tubes.

I quite like this idea, and hope it gets added into the game.

I do not like the idea of having to do these quests to unlock all of the skills I acquired previously. However, moving forward I’m fine with all the different ideas you posted on how to handle newly unlocked skills, it should add some depth to leveling up.

I’m not too happy with the idea of connecting the outdoor maps without an overview. Is not too much of a bother to whine about though I think it might make the game feel a little too claustrophobic.

Also as an added thought, what do you think about giving us a replay option? For now I’m just talking about replaying these skill quests after already having completed them. But it would be nice to be able to go back to that first dragon and see how I do, especially with all the updates that we’ve had since then.

Any way you decide to do it should be good enough, you haven’t let me down before.

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM EXISTING CHARACTERS. Extra quests should be just that: extra, that is, optional.

First of all, any skills already earned should be left in place: players get grumpy when features are removed or nerfed. In the case of veteran/high level players, the skill quests should be optional for those skills already unlocked.

Allowing a character to progress as best they can without attempting the skill quest seems a valid move: if you don’t want to fight that boss right now (or can’t seem to win against him), then you shouldn’t have to keep repeating that one battle until you unlock the skill–you just don’t get the new ability until you do.

This method also lets those special skills/attacks serve as accolades for players to collect on each hero. People love to collect things, whether it’s merit badges, in-game titles, belt loops, or shiny pins. I think this would make a positive addition to the game.

I like it! Lose the skills until you complete the quests.

I don’t like the idea. It makes even more difficult to level up characters. Of course, that depends on teh difficulty of the quest.

That sounds fun to me! I’ve always found those types of quests, when well thought-out, to be fun! To address your questions:

1. I’m of two minds regarding this. If the skill quests are required, it would bog down career mode significantly, especially if you purchase AD after you’ve already gotten the Human to a high level. (“I just got my Elf to level 6 from a single dungeon with +1000% XP! But now I’ve got to do all three of her quests before I can continue playing her…”) On the other hand, if skill quests were optional, I think a lot of people wouldn’t bother to do them and then not understand why the game isn’t as interesting as they thought it would be. Part of what makes this game fun for me is manipulating things to gain the most advantage from skills, and without that added intricacy the game just wouldn’t be the same. In my opinion, I think that they should be optional, but with notifications every time you try a new career game that your character could be more powerful by doing skill quests.

2. In my opinion, the best way to proceed with skill quests and veteran players would be to optionally take them away. What I mean is, if someone already has those skills, give them a prompt to “take away” their skills so that they can experience that content, and perhaps give everyone the option of skipping those quests if the player finds them too tedious. Alternatively, don’t take away any skills, but make the quests always available, and simply “down-level” the player to the level the proper level that they would likely have been at when doing the quests. I think that would be the best option.

One last thought I have is that the skill quests would be really fun if they were completed in two sections: In the first section, put the player into non-random situations where, if they had that skill, it would be useful. In the second section, after a miniboss maybe, give the player the skill and then put them through similar situations so that they can see where the skill shines.

For example, for the Human’s Full Swing ability, pit the player against a handful of rooms with two or three monsters with two HP and moderately high defense. For the Elf’s Leap Attack, start each map with only one monster, but every 2 or 3 turns spawn a melee monster adjacent to the Elf. For the Dwarf’s Frenzy, fill the room with moderately high defense melee fodder.

Skills feel the most fun when you can use them well, and giving the player custom-made scenarios to do that will feel good.

Yes to skills quests. Adds another dimension. Yes to claw back & earn back. Adds another level of needed difficulty.

Outdoor settings take away one of the key skills of the Dwarf - calling worms. Bear this in mind if skills quests are implemented in the outdoors.

I propose an inversion of this idea. Leave the skills alone; they are earned through experience and they are what set the different characters apart. Plus, it would be really weird for veterans to lose them and casual players that don’t complete the quests won’t notice the intricacies the game offers.

Besides, a one-time quest (per skill earned, every two character levels) doesn’t seem like it would add much.

Instead, each week (perhaps when the Tournaments reset), each player has the option to quest in a vast inter-connected outdoor area – a series of figure 8s. At the intersection of each ring is a dragon den. The first contains one dragon, the second intersection has two dragons, and on it goes. The dragons must be slain to proceed beyond their den. Random loot should be available along the way.

o  o       o  o      o   o s           d          dd        ddd
o  o       o  o      o  o

After completing each dragon den, the highest Feat bonus that player can earn for the rest of the week is determined by the number of dragons slain in a single den. Once you beat a den containing the maximum Feat bonus allowed by your level, you are done with the weekly quest. If you don’t, you can try again, in order to hopefully increase your currently allowed bonus, similar to the XP award system of the Daily Hunt.

FlatOnHisFace – Thank you. That’s an interesting idea. Although I don’t think people will like having to complete a quest each week in order to keep what they have already gotten used to using. And the most common feedback we get is there to be bosses besides dragons. But I do like the figure 8 pattern idea.

We have another idea … see next post.

What does everyone think of this idea, instead of Skill Quests:

TRINKET QUESTS:

Rather than trinkets being automatically awarded when you reach a certain fame level, you instead have to complete a Trinket Quest to gain the use of that trinket.

Trinket Quests would take place in an outdoor region. Like hunts, there would not be a level view. Unlike hunts, the map would be non-linear and would be fixed in size. Maybe the region is shaped like a diamond, with the entrance on one end and the boss room on the other end.

The region would be filled with monsters native to the region. But in addition, there would be a set of quest monsters, something like this:

1 Boss (eg. Cave Troll Chieftan) 3 Guards (eg. 3 Cave Troll Savages) 10 Sentries (eg 10 Cave Trolls)

(Quest monsters might be enlarged, like in dens or hunts.)

Boss and Guards are in the final room. Sentries are scattered randomly in the region.

To get the trinket, you kill the boss. To win (and keep the trinket), you need to escape back through the region entrance with the trinket.

When you kill the boss, any remaining guards will follow you from room to room, and any remaining sentries will immediately go to the region’s entry room and wait for you there.

You start with +X Weapons, depending on the region type. The region has three +Y (moderately better) weapons. The boss’s lair has one +Z (much better) weapon. 

You can swap heroes if you have access to the dungeon entrance. You might want to scout the boss lair to see what the +Z weapon is, then swap to the best hero for it.

If we do this, we’d speed up the progression of trinket unlocks, so that the trinket quests are no so far apart.

Thoughts?

If you make new skill levels anyway, why not making quests for skill levels 3+ only? Trinket quests are fine. I hope the higher are hard enough so that you have to need a good escape plan! I fear the elf has an unfair advantage when fleeing, so the boss might need more than 1 health (to avoid a lucky win with 1 shot from the entrance). I really like the idea, but I don’t know how to balance that. Maybe you could make the walk-paths not random. Human would benefit from circles and dwarf from “no barrier”. “river-like” obstacles are the strongest boost for a fleeing elf.

I love the trinket quest idea. Requiring the character to return through the dungeon is a good thought. Perhaps that could be implemented in careers and campaigns….